"Official" hood hinge thread

454CanAm wrote: Okay bats................. took a few pix tonite. What I like about this set up is that it reinforces the hood from side to side. What I don't like is that the nose will hit the ground if you open it too much !

When Silva and his guys built these cars, they slapped them together as quick as poss …

Interesting

Thanks for the pics Rick. I knew you could do it!

Firefingers wrote: Interesting

Interesting approach using a bar all the way across.

Interesting

Yes, Many thanks Rick,
I am not too surprised that the bar is glass in a bit off,
Most all these old custom parts are off, I have seen kit car bodies like the Early Laser that is off over an inch left to right front to rear, no where near symmetrical, Most people don't even notice but once pointed out it can't be missed, most all kit cars have poorly fitting doors until lots of finish work is done,
I have not done any measurements to the Mako because I don't want to know ...lol

Using Ricks pictures as a guide I made another working model, again, my models pivot is close to but not to the inch where Ricks low pivot is, and as he stated his is off left to right,
Between my model and Ricks account his beak hits proves what I was believing already.
My point is in the case of the Mako low isn't the best while what FF was saying is true in some cases, to work on the Mako the point of the beak would have to be the pivot to keep the beak from hitting the ground as rick says his does,

Here is my mock ups of Ricks low mount,
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/the13bats/lowpivot03.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/the13bats/lowpivot04.jpg
As you see the beak comes way down when open,

Here is my high mount for comparisons,
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/the13bats/makotilt03.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/the13bats/makotilt04.jpg

What I like about where my pivot is located is note how basically the beak is no lower than were the bottom of the chin is and that of course is clearing the ground,
The only limit to how far it opens is what the chin hits as it swings under

2Sharks wrote: Interesting

Thanks for the pics Rick. I knew you could do it!

Interesting

It will definately require some "playing around" to get it right. My concern with the high mount is that the wheel well looks to sweep right into a tire, and for sure the underside won't come close to clearing the front frame horns and subframe connector without removing a big chunk of the lower valence.

In your working model, if it had tires on it, the low point still seems to clear where the ground would be; hard to tell exactly. Again, for sure it would require some playing around.

There are fairly compact electro-hydraulic rams specifically designed to lift boat sundeck/engine covers that would be perfect to open a hood automaticallly. With a pivot system, even if the hydraulic system wasn't used, there are mini-struts as used in hatchback cars which would dampen the opening and closing so that it would operate smoothly, stay in the upright position (potentially), and close without free-falling.

Lots of good options here. I'm almost this far on mine so this is of great interest to me. I was simply thinking caged needle- or roller bearing assemblies (like an axle bearing) frame-mounted (location to be determined), and two removable brackets with properly-sized rod stock welded. If they both had some side-to-side play (maybe an inch or more each), the hood could be installed and removed by loosening and sliding these in or out, depending upon how they're mounted. I think this is better than the full-lenth bar because it wouldn't interfere with anything else in its' plane of operation. Basically these would just supplant/repace the hinges in essentially their same (altered) locations.

The13bats wrote: Interesting

Yes, Many thanks Rick, I am not too surprised that the bar is glass in a bit off, Most all these old custom parts are off, I have seen kit car bodies like the Early Laser that is off over an inch left to right front to rear, no where near symmetrical, Most people don't even noti …

Interesting

FF,
My little paper models serve only to show how big a different the placement of the pivot will make, it kills lots of arguments that would happen without such models,

I save time and money any chance I can get, if I can use what came on my clip that is a huge perk, I have no ego problems riding on the coat tails of others,
What I am interested in is how well can a single movement pivot be made to work on a Mako, We already have the top shelf dual movement hinge Randy refined, it works pretty much perfectly, the biggest problem with it, I believe he will agree is that the average home builder if he doesn't have a pretty good shop and top end plans can't hope to build hinges like those and will have to pay a machinist to do it right, I know I would have to pay to have them made,

I am not worried about mine as far as what I have seen,
Mine was on a car with wheels/tires in place, it didn't hit the tires,
The tire isn't really where you are thinking, if I understand you right,
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/the13bats/hinge.jpg
Like In this picture I am not having anything forward of the bottom of the radiator support,
On a stock vette all that beef in front of the radiator it there for front bumper reasons and I have no interest in trying to engineer a "real" front bumper of any kind on a custom car with a fully tilting front clip,
Again, my picture above speaks volumes, the clip is very close to straight up yet hits nothing with the chin, As I said before I will not notch my chin, it just looks too tacky, other ways around that if needed,
When it's on my car then the "playing around" and refinements will start,

The beak in very long, I only took pictures full straight up as to me that is perfect but a dream in reality,
On my model with "low" point" back where the dual movement hinge mounts we get a car that opens about this wide,
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/the13bats/mokotiltcar.jpg
With it forward the lift with be a bit wider,

Didn't you see the Sterling video I posted?
I have been doing all kinds of lifts for many years,
No reason to use hydraulics when we have such a wide range of electric linear actuators out there,
Hydraulics have too many cons, when the Sterling kit cars first came out people used Hydraulics in cold weather they ran the top up and down 1/2 as fast as warmer weather, they require lines and fluid, just a mess, we converted my Sterling to linear actuators and what a joy it was after that,
Same with the Mako front clip, many very small linear actuators out there to use, and sure if the size was right pirating them off a mini van door or hatch at the junkyard, might be cheaper than buying them new,

I believe you are talking about bearing blocks as my friend here used on his Laser rear tilt,
http://cmsbearings.com/05-7-1/insert_ball_bearings_units.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/the13bats/lasertilt02.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/the13bats/lasertilt01.jpg
When my friend Tony built this Laser I razzed him that he didn't need 4 bearing blocks just 2 but he had them and it looks good and sturdy, as you see the pivot is low and all the way back, this can be done since they is no "beak"

My Mako uses flat bearing blocks on the ends of the pivot,
My one piece bar from side to side offers many pros while not interfering with anything else in it's plane of operation, well, I will have to look it might be too far forward for big headlights in the grill, but I am not doing that,
One flaw with the Mako front clip or any vette with a full tilt front clip is they are not very ridged, like with mine I can't express how much that bar all the way across plays in making the clip far more ridged,
how you describe doing yours is somewhat how Ecklers did their tilt front ends, they didn't use bearings just bolt and eyes like a door hinge on a home, it will work but you loose the strength and rigidity given by a one piece bar,

Here is a few pictures of a Bradley with tilt front end,
I can't find the video but the way it works is it moves forward then tilts to clear the Mako type chin, it is smooth as silk in the videos, when possible one lift in the center is best,
Of course these cars do not have the radiator to deal with,
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/the13bats/IMG_1290.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/the13bats/IMG_1294.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/the13bats/IMG_1295.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/the13bats/IMG_1296.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/the13bats/actuator-1a.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/the13bats/actuator-2a.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/the13bats/actuator-3a.jpg

Firefingers wrote: Interesting

Interesting approach using a bar all the way across.

Interesting

Hi- Im just curious why so much time is being spent on hinges when there are plenty of cars that have hinges that work fine, mine included, that people like silva built? My nose doesnt touch, its well balanced, stays up by itself altho I have a hold up rod too) and uses readily available hinges (55-57 chev). All thats needed is a location template on a car where it works already which is no problem. So, why not?

Skip

2Sharks wrote: Interesting

Thanks for the pics Rick. I knew you could do it!

Interesting

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/the13bats/useless.gif

Skip,
I hear so much about your car I am aching to see pictures,

So much time is spent on hinges, well, again I would love to see pictures of yours in action,
What people have learned is hinges off cars and trucks wear out and or break, they don't really open very wide and have all kinds of other issues,

If we didn't strive to find better ways to build our cars we really wouldn't be car crafters now would we,
If your hinges work great for you that is super,
Again, why not post some pictures of yours doing it's thing, words only go so far,

If you can't figure out how to post pictures I can walk you thru that or email me your pictures I will host and post them for you, The13bats@aol.com
If you don't know how to send pictures in emails, how about I send you a digital camera, you fill it with pictures of your car and mail it back then I can post all the pictures,

The13bats wrote: Interesting

Yes, Many thanks Rick, I am not too surprised that the bar is glass in a bit off, Most all these old custom parts are off, I have seen kit car bodies like the Early Laser that is off over an inch left to right front to rear, no where near symmetrical, Most people don't even noti …

Bearing blocks/pivot points

Bats,

Those bearing blocks are exactly what I was referring to; nice job. You've got images of virtually everything, don't you?!

Skip, those regular hinges will bend on you if they haven't yet, they rock side-to-side, and usually don't close all the way without a little help. Mine worked "alright" but they're just stamped steel, and one of the weak links on almost all vehicles... can't tell you how many stamped steel hood hinges I've bent on cars over the years.

There's a thread here somewhere with a link to some billet "regular" hinges with hydraulic dampers built in... very nice, but big money. That would solve the problem, too. All that said, I'm glad yours are still working for you.

Firefingers wrote: Interesting

It will definately require some "playing around" to get it right. My concern with the high mount is that the wheel well looks to sweep right into a tire, and for sure the underside won't come close to clearing the front frame horns and subframe connector without removing a big chun …

Bearing blocks/pivot points

FF,
I grew up trying to impress a daddy who was just as eccentric as I am but in a different way,
He was a Navy jet tech, machinist then a civilian machinist, he expertise amount other things, scratch building parts for obsolete machines, many times improving the originals,
He's 84 now and still shows and wins with his custom Avanti 2,

I got involved in building kits and customs very young, did my first really radical car a Camaro at 15,
All thru the years people talk about this or talk about that and it's good but I am a visual oriented person, It comes in part for several things, my other obsession cyrptozooloy and the study of some related paranormal subjects,
In that world a person says "I saw Bigfoot" or whatever weird creature, that's wonderful, but show me a picture and it takes on a new life, yes, 95% of the pictures are fakes or known animals,

So with cars it was almost a result of the type person I am I do what I do here on countless other car forums, not so much any more but in my early days on the net I would talk about this or that car I owned and or worked on and some wise apple would call me out, and I had to post pictures, so I collect pictures, I have at least 50K car related,
Granted like in the case of "bearing blocks" I didn't have a picture so I googled it but it showed you in an instance what I was talking about,
It would have been a lot harder to explain what a bearing block looked like with no image,
Pictures made me go from hating to liking round headlights,
Like in the other thread, how would one ever explain an L-88 scoop to a person who never saw one, it's cumbersome and almost impossible,

When I got deeper involved with kit cars I would hear a lot of people talking how well their car was built, ( fact, most kit cars are hack jobs ) In the early days of the internet you know any time a post was made about this or that someone would chime in that theirs was this way or that way but always better built,
I would day dream about all these wonderful built kits out there,
Then when I started hitting people up for pictures I would get to see the real deal.

It's like this, if I had my Laser 917 up for sale and you wanted one and I told you mine was a show car perfect in every way, would you send me the $$$ with never seeing a picture of the car or the car in person? NO WAY!

Back to hood hinges,
I have never heard anything good about using factory car hinges on the Makos,
I believe they fail for many reasons,
Like you say they rock side to side a fault with the Mako clip not being very ridged on the car, when you open the clip from one side you do place some uneven stress on things, over time that adds up,
Plus I can't prove it, but I believe that the way they are mounted on a Mako stressed them all different to how they are mounted on whatever car they came on,

Bottom line a factory hinge isn't made to do that and we have learned it wont do it for very long,

Late yesterday afternoon I was moving some of my yard art around out back, a fellow bought one of my Kellison bodies and I have to dig it out for his pick up,
I went to move the mid engine chassis, and the dammed slave cylinder popped,
So not to just get all frustrated I started messing with the Mako clips,
I was off a lot on my model of my pivot point, I didn't do the pictures like before but the red dot is where my pivot really is, right where that style line where a bumper would go starts to fade out,
A fair amount lower and I will have to say afteraying with my model I believe this to be the best all things considered for the pivot point if a single pivot is what a person desires,
The bar is right there but headlight would still fit in the grill
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/the13bats/bats01.jpg

The13bats wrote: Interesting

FF, My little paper models serve only to show how big a different the placement of the pivot will make, it kills lots of arguments that would happen without such models,

I save time and money any chance I can get, if I can use what came on my clip that is a huge perk, I have no …

Bearing blocks/pivot points

Bats
I got into a little more cutting and grinding.
Heres a piece I think you might need.

skip wrote: Interesting

Hi- Im just curious why so much time is being spent on hinges when there are plenty of cars that have hinges that work fine, mine included, that people like silva built? My nose doesnt touch, its well balanced, stays up by itself altho I have a hold up rod too) and uses readily avai …

Bearing blocks/pivot points

blazenet

I could use that, wish it had came with the clip....:-(

The13bats wrote: Interesting

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/the13bats/useless.gif

Skip, I hear so much about your car I am aching to see pictures,

So much time is spent on hinges, well, again I would love to see pictures of yours in action, What people have learned is hinges off cars and trucks w …

Bearing blocks/pivot points

Check out this guys solution to the flip nose (it's a waaaay cool custom too) http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-general/2466222-and-now-for-a-real-custom-vette.html nose is covered on the last page of the thread. /:\

Firefingers wrote: Bearing blocks/pivot points

Bats,

Those bearing blocks are exactly what I was referring to; nice job. You've got images of virtually everything, don't you?!

Skip, those regular hinges will bend on you if they haven't yet, they rock side-to-side, and usually don't close all the way without …

Bearing blocks/pivot points

Hey all you Mako guys. Turn down the volume. This is a bit noisy but it works great. Thanks for the link. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2734246/FullTilt1.mov

The13bats wrote: Bearing blocks/pivot points

FF, I grew up trying to impress a daddy who was just as eccentric as I am but in a different way, He was a Navy jet tech, machinist then a civilian machinist, he expertise amount other things, scratch building parts for obsolete machines, many times improving the …

Bearing blocks/pivot points

Looks great... sounds like a table saw.
Is that a boat engine prop your using?

It's really cool but yes, very loud indeed.

Good work, post some photo's on your hinges.

McBrain

blazenet wrote: Bearing blocks/pivot points

Bats I got into a little more cutting and grinding. Heres a piece I think you might need.

Bearing blocks/pivot points

Im glad that some of us are still working on this hood problem. After the first attempt at just using a pivot.

http://makovette.net/new7_10.html

After Paul saw how far the hood opened he actually thought we should cut off the front end of the hood ???

:'(

The13bats wrote: Bearing blocks/pivot points

blazenet

I could use that, wish it had came with the clip....:-(

Bearing blocks/pivot points

Here its alot better, but I think some good hinges like yours Randy would probably do the trick

http://makovette.net/new12_1_07.html

parkeracing wrote: Bearing blocks/pivot points

Check out this guys solution to the flip nose (it's a waaaay cool custom too) http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-general/2466222-and-now-for-a-real-custom-vette.html nose is covered on the last page of the thread. /:\

Bearing blocks/pivot points

actually Craig lets see some more pics. :)

2Sharks wrote: Interesting

Thanks for the pics Rick. I knew you could do it!

Interesting

Hi- Im just curious why so much time is being spent on hinges when there are plenty of cars that have hinges that work fine, mine included, that people like silva built? My nose doesnt touch, its well balanced, stays up by itself altho I have a hold up rod too) and uses readily available hinges (55-57 chev). All thats needed is a location template on a car where it works already which is no problem. So, why not?

Skip
Skip, I may have started the original thread several years ago. Several of the guys had wore out, broken, flimsy, or no hinges on uninstalled noses, and most wanted them to lift higher than stock hood hinges will permit. My Mako's nose weighs at least 2 or 3 times as much as a car hood or some of the mako's with much thinner fiberglass. Also I wanted it to lift to as close to vertical as possible instead of 50*-60*. When I posted pictures they turned to be very similar to the Randy's hinges made out of 1/4" stock and angle iron. The stock hinges were on several of the cars and is probably the easiest way to go, but for some of us, they wouldn't work.
Then we discussed a lift system like shown in the link and on and on....

The13bats wrote: Interesting

Yes, Many thanks Rick, I am not too surprised that the bar is glass in a bit off, Most all these old custom parts are off, I have seen kit car bodies like the Early Laser that is off over an inch left to right front to rear, no where near symmetrical, Most people don't even noti …

Interesting

Here is another interesting idea http://www.superiorglassworks.com/Accessories/Forward-Tilt-Hood-Hinge-Kit/Detailed-product-flyer.html

WWW.SUPERIORGLASSWORKS.COMHood hinge, forward tilt kitHood hinge, forward tilt kit

http://www.superiorglassworks.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/8294d7c1bd49f3f1afac1f987fc2b790.jpg

ShawkRider wrote: Thank you for posting these great photos and info on how it all works. We have been needing this thread for quite some time.

McBrain

I don't know if this thread is still active, but I am just now purchasing the John Bohannon Mako nose and hinges. Question ... I see how the hinge is fastened to the frame, but how is the hinge fastened to the fiberglass nose?